Yveltal's state

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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Enchidio on Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:34 pm

just to show stuff that can beat yveltal and things
if you really think it's irrelevant i can delete it
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Enchidio on Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:35 pm

Hydre(Hydreigon) wrote:I remember there being a 'CQ council' once, or something along the line. Maybe this 'council' could help on that matter, I don't know? Because this has become a joke at this point.

Thinking about making a 'custom' CQ with a few things included in the banlist to make tests.
There was a Conquest council?
Also, that seems interesting. A CQ variant with a few extras in the banlist ban azurill would be a nice way to not just test Yveltal, but to test other possible broken Legendaries.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:17 pm

Yeah, I'll think about this possibility. And uh, it might have been for the CQ tier list and all, so eh. Unsure if there was one actually.

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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by madman404 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:25 pm

Okay, I'm going to attempt to close this discussion, because this is honstly stupid, and I can't believe people are still trying to defend this thing. First off, the scenario in which it is banned. Let's be honest, this really doesn't hurt dark or flying at all. Dark and flying both have perfectly good, ubers-viable megas and legends. Dark has mega sableye, which is perfectly viable in ubers, and should be MORE viable considering it only has to fight 1 uber per battle. Flying has a load of good megas, as well as access to ho-oh and lugia, which should be more than enough for the type to do what it wants. Simply put, neither of these types NEED yveltal to function. Now, I also believe yveltal is incredibly unhealthy for whatever meta CQ may be trying to establish. Simply put, it has no hard or consistent check or counter. All non-legendary checks to it are one-offs, or are only available to the types yveltal is already legal on/have good checks to it already. Sucker punch makes it practically impossible for any fast, frail revenge killers to take it out, and taunt + dark pulse make it impossible to wall. In ADDITION to these already insane traits, access to roost means it can continue to wall and attack even in the face of types that resist oblivion wing. Thanks to it's unique offensive coverage combined with it's incredible power and bulk, there is no opportunity cost at all to using yveltal. It takes little to no effort on the part of the dark or flying lord to preserve it, and it has an incredibly high payoff for even its misuse.

IN ADDITION. IF YOUR CALC DETAILS A 2HKO, YOUR CALC IS NOT VALID. Especially so in flying's case, it is so easy to switch out and wall most, if not ALL yveltal checks just by switching.
If I haven't provided a general enough ban argument, please contact me on showdown at madman404, and I will attempt to go into further detail and answer all your questions.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by madman404 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:28 pm

Also, on the part of a council. PLEASE DO. I'll attempt to contribute to such a thing in any way I can if you make it.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Fraction on Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:51 pm

Oi. I suggest we do to Yveltal what we did to Xerneas. Ban its signature move. 

flees
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:08 am

Or that. It will still being horribly strong but at least it won't be a win button that can regen on anything. Its flying stab would be hurrimiss, with dat miss chance, but stronger.

It'd still 1hko/2hko things, actually. And roost is giving him some regen. Actually, that wouldn't be enough. Still ok for ban.

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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Nebulous on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:18 pm

madman404 wrote:Okay, I'm going to attempt to close this discussion, because this is honstly stupid, and I can't believe people are still trying to defend this thing. First off, the scenario in which it is banned. Let's be honest, this really doesn't hurt dark or flying at all. Dark and flying both have perfectly good, ubers-viable megas and legends. Dark has mega sableye, which is perfectly viable in ubers, and should be MORE viable considering it only has to fight 1 uber per battle. Flying has a load of good megas, as well as access to ho-oh and lugia, which should be more than enough for the type to do what it wants. Simply put, neither of these types NEED yveltal to function. Now, I also believe yveltal is incredibly unhealthy for whatever meta CQ may be trying to establish. Simply put, it has no hard or consistent check or counter. All non-legendary checks to it are one-offs, or are only available to the types yveltal is already legal on/have good checks to it already. Sucker punch makes it practically impossible for any fast, frail revenge killers to take it out, and taunt + dark pulse make it impossible to wall. In ADDITION to these already insane traits, access to roost means it can continue to wall and attack even in the face of types that resist oblivion wing. Thanks to it's unique offensive coverage combined with it's incredible power and bulk, there is no opportunity cost at all to using yveltal. It takes little to no effort on the part of the dark or flying lord to preserve it, and it has an incredibly high payoff for even its misuse.

IN ADDITION. IF YOUR CALC DETAILS A 2HKO, YOUR CALC IS NOT VALID. Especially so in flying's case, it is so easy to switch out and wall most, if not ALL yveltal checks just by switching.
If I haven't provided a general enough ban argument, please contact me on showdown at madman404, and I will attempt to go into further detail and answer all your questions.

This ^.
Thanks Madman, i'm bad at these sort of things.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:56 pm

Now to wait for one of the CQ management team (is that a word) to notice that thread, if not done already .3.

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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Enchidio on Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:02 am

Okay, I'm agreeing to Yveltal's ban. The thing is fucking powerful. I've lost to it on all of my sets.
Dragon, Ghost, hell, even fighting where I tried to counter it with Cobalion but failed (Cobalion's a good member tho dont kill me)

Literally its only weaknesses are fairy types, and even then,




Oblivion Wing says hi.
This opinion is very well subject to change, but I now agree with Yveltal's ban.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Cruella on Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:47 pm

I am no pro at conquest, but yeah yveltal is a pain. I dont know if it was just the set the person was running, but is also seemed pretty bulky, being able to live a double edge reckless raptor attack, despite having a bit of its health depleted. Though porygon2 was pretty good against it, but I think you already mentioned that. I would definitely request this thing be sent to banville. But once again, I am no profession conquest council member.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Marshall De Vos on Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:54 am

^ Without knowing what Yvel or Raptor set was being run may I post this here, Cru.

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 271-321 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah, defensive Yveltal boasts quite the impressive bulk as well, and how strong the offensive one is we all don't have to argue about (even I, who tends to run it, but that's more OC-story based than 'i need to play broken stuff' syndrome), I guess.
It's really the first time I post here, but it's time I'm joining the people that say Yvel would be doing fine even if it's disallowed in CQ.
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Re: Yveltal's state

Post by Enchidio on Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:09 pm

Alright, I'm back more. My poison team has fallen 6-0 to Yveltal. I also once saw Neb destroy a team with Yveltal (lmao the person who he beat said that Yveltal wasn't broken).

I'm willing to make a suspect CQ teams with both psychic and dark in order to try to beat Yveltal. I'll post the replays here.
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