DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

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DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Fraction on Fri May 26, 2017 10:30 am

This thread is to serve as a introduction and guide to DPP CQ and its meta. The credit for this variant goes to MawiliteVGC, the doc is linked here. Be sure to check it out, hopefully this thread serves to clear up any questions anyone might have. Other than that, I wanted to write on the viability of each type in DPP CQ, just so I can check for balancing issues/help others with their teams.

Introduction:


Why DPP?:

Generation 4 is an interesting gen. Its role is like another 'booster' to the Pokemon before, as it introduces evolutions to many older Pokemon. It is unlike the latter generations as it keeps a link between Kanto, Johto and Hoenn. The mechanics are fascinating, the meta is interesting, and the endless teambuilding potential drove MawiliteVGC and me to create this. Hopefully it will be just as good of an experience for you as it was for us to test this out.

Meta Changes:

Obviously, the DPP Meta is very different from what we're normally used to (gen 6/gen 7 meta). 

  • The most apparent change is the fact that there are no Megas/Z-moves. This removes the options of certain staple 'mons on types, such as Zard-Y on Fire. But this isn't necessarily bad, as the meta remains just as (if not more) competitive.
  • There is no team preview. Which is why many teams can hide their aces up till the late-game in their battle, which can turn the tides and give them a massive advantage. This also means if you win a battle by revealing only 3-4 of your Pokemon your team cannot be fully scouted out.
  • The other important mechanic is weather. Weather does not go away after a set number of turns after it is set up, and can only be removed by setting another weather or by abilities such as Cloud Nine. The meta favors weather-based teams very much.
  • Hazards are another huge prospect of this generation. There are not many rapid spinners available to any type, so hazard stacking can be utilized to, perhaps, its maximum potential. Teams based on hazard stacking will also be quite popular.
  • DPP in general, rewards balance and bulky offense/weather teams over full on defensive, stall or offense teams. This provides us with 20-30 turn long matches with interesting turnouts as players are forced to brainstorm, maybe a bit more than they're used to.


DPP CQ Specific Rulings:

In addition to the regular conquest rulings, DPP CQ has its own set of rulings to further restrict and balance it.

  • Dragon type kingdom does not exist. This is because of lore (as confirmed by Mawilite), but I'm more inclined to think that its because of balancing as well. Outrage spam is very, very overpowered, and anything that isn't named Steel does not want to take hits. And even Steel is threatened by the Fire/Ground/Fighting coverage most Dragons carry. 
  • This does not mean Dragon types cannot be used. Kingdra can be used on Water, Garchomp can be used on Ground etc. But another restriction here is that players cannot run Outrage on Garchomp and Salamence. Because of its speed tier, Outrage would pose too much of a threat, and could be an instawin against certain types.
  • In addition to that, Garchomp/Wynaut/Wobbufet/Salamence cannot be traded, because of balancing problems.
  • Only one Pokemon per team can run Explosion. This is because of the extremely powerful 500 base damage (250 + defense drops). The restriction allows players to play their late-game sweeps without being worried over getting stopped by countless sash Explosion sweep-stoppers.


Gift of Gods:

Over the course of the RP, one can fight a legendary Pokemon from the creation trio and get a special ability, a perk if you will. These are known as the Gift of Gods. Each one has its specific niche, and can be very useful:

Dialga: This is a great defensive ability. It can also help when going on the offensive with your knights. The fact that you can reset a battle does come in clutch, giving you enough time to scout your opponent's team and movesets and then think of another battle plan.

Palkia: Palkia provides a general offensive leverage against others. Scouting the teams has never been easier. Removing one Pokemon on your opponent's team can turn a bad matchup into a good one.

Giratina: Perhaps the most offensive of all gifts, this particular one is good in the late-game as one can go and attack a kingdom directly, and cannot be bothered by knights.

Viability:

The viability rankings for each type in DPP CQ have been divided into S-tier, A-tier, B-tier, C-tier and D-tier. With the viability decreasing in that order, S-tier being the most viable to D-tier being the least.

S-tier: The best type(s) in the meta. Great matchups, and little to no flaws.
A-tier: Excellent type(s). Great matchups, but not exactly perfect.
B-tier: Good type(s). Generally good matchups, and some flaws.
C-tier: Okay type(s). Okay matchups, but with hard fights. A number of flaws.
D-tier: Type(s) with low viability. Tough matchups, a great amount of flaws. 

S-tier:

Steel: Steel is currently the only S-tier type. This is because of its phenomenal offensive and defensive capabilities. Steel can perfect the balance playstyle most suited for this meta. It gets great matchups against other types.


  • Offensive Threats: Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, Jirachi, Magnezone.
  • Defensive Threats: Forretress, Jirachi, Skarmory, Bronzong.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Heatran, Empoleon.


A-tier:

Water: Water is a great type in DPP, because of the different playstyles it can adapt to. It can run bulky offense, rain offense, non-rain offense, defensive and semi-stall as well, due to the large roster of Pokemon available. This gives it a place in the A-tier as a highly versatile type.


  • Offensive Threats: Gyarados, Starmie, Kabutops, Feraligatr, Sharpedo, Kingdra, Crawdaunt, Manaphy.
  • Defensive Threats: Swampert, Slowbro, Starmie, Quagsire, Lanturn, Tentacruel, Cloyster.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Politoed, Ludicolo, Empoleon, Milotic, Azumarill, Suicune.


Ground: Ground is another great type to run a balanced playstyle. Plus it has sandstorm support, which is always good for getting chip damage on your opponent. Ground has a lot of threatening monsters to weaken and break opposing teams.


  • Offensive Threats: Garchomp, Flygon, Mamoswine, Rhyperior, Groudon.
  • Defensive Threats: Hippowdon, Gastrodon, Gliscor, Swampert, Quagsire.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Donphan.


Poison: Poison is a type that is buffed in this meta due to the importance of hazard stacking. This is utilized in a playstyle to wear down your opponent's team and then go for a late-game clean. Poison has a bunch of incredible monsters.


  • Offensive Threats: Gengar, Crobat, Roserade, Drapion, Toxicroak.
  • Defensive Threats: Nidoqueen, Tentacruel, Weezing, Qwilfish, Vileplume/Venusaur.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Skuntank, Nidoking.


Flying: Flying earns its place on the A-tier as another versatile type. Flying almost always has switchins to anything, making it a great type to run balance on. It can also decide between quite a collection of legendary Pokemon to put in the legend spot. That, combined with a bulk-core, can be very annoying for the opponent to deal with.


  • Offensive Threats: Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Dragonite, Crobat, Honchkrow, Salamence, Yanmega, Shaymin-Sky, Rayquaza.
  • Defensive Threats: Togekiss, Zapdos, Skarmory, Gliscor.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Ho-Oh, Mantine, Staraptor, Lugia, Moltres.


Ice: Last but not the least, Ice is yet another type that got buffed in this meta. Endless Hail is a blessing for Ice users, to keep spamming Blizzards, which often has little to no switchins. It is incredibly hard to keep switching in on it, especially when Ice makes good use of its hazards.


  • Offensive Threats: Weavile, Abomasnow, Walrein, Mamoswine, Jynx.
  • Defensive Threats: Cloyster, Glaceon.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Froslass, Regice.


B-tier:

Fire: Fire is a good type, though it can't utilize sun for long due to there being no Drought user. However, it does boast a lot of good Pokemon, offensively. But due to the meta preferring balance teams, Fire is currently ranked as B-tier.


  • Offensive Threats: Infernape, Entei, Blaziken, Typhlosion, Arcanine.
  • Defensive Threats: Torkoal, Arcanine, Ho-Oh, Heatran.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Houndoom.


Grass: Grass is another great type, though it is hindered by its many weaknesses. Its saving grace is the presence of Skymin and many other good, viable Pokemon. Grass is a fun type to use, as well as being pretty relevant.


  • Offensive Threats: Exeggutor, Sceptile, Roserade, Celebi, Breloom, Shaymin-Sky, Shaymin.
  • Defensive Threats: Tangrowth, Cradily, Celebi, Roserade.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Abomasnow, Torterra, Shifty, Ludicolo.


Fighting: Fighting's main niche is offense. There's no balanced option here. Your best bet is to break your opponent's defensive core fast before you get worn down by hazards etc. 


  • Offensive Threats: Machamp, Heracross, Blaziken, Breloom, Infernape, Toxicroak.
  • Defensive Threats: Hitmontop, Hariyama.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Poliwrath, Hitmonlee, Medicham, Gallade.


Psychic: Psychic executes balance and offense very well. It gets hard to switch into specs special attacks after a while, so Psychic is in fact great offensively. Psychic may or may not be promoted to A-tier in the future.


  • Offensive Threats: Alakazam, Exeggutor, Mewtwo, Metagross, Latios, Jirachi, Starmie.
  • Defensive Threats: Slowbro, Starmie, Celebi, Latias, Bronzong, Wobbufet, Espeon, Lugia.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Medicham, Slowking, Deoxys, Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf. 


Dark: Dark is a great offensive type, that relies on fast attacks to break cores. If you let your checks get too weak Dark is difficult to handle. That, combined with some of the best physical attackers in the meta, make it a solid option to choose as your type. Dark may or may not be promoted to A-tier in the future.


  • Offensive Threats: Tyranitar, Weavile, Crawdaunt, Darkrai, Sharpedo, Honchkrow, Drapion.
  • Defensive Threats: Umbreon, Spiritomb.
  • Other Good 'Mons: Skuntank, Shiftry, Houndoom.


C-tier:

Normal: Normal is not that great in this meta. This is because of the unavailability of eviolite, and strong hitters in general. It's almost as if Normal doesn't know what to do with itself. It does not handle common threats very well. Normal may or may not be demoted to D-tier.


  • Offensive Threats: Tauros, Ditto, Kangaskhan, Ursaring, Snorlax, Exploud, Staraptor, Porygon Z.
  • Defensive Threats: Blissey, Porygon 2, Staraptor.
  • Other 'Mons: Smeargle, Ambipom, Zangoose.


Bug: Bug isn't that great either, because of the common hazards and the balance-biased meta. Bug does not have many hard hitters and has a hard time switching into threats. 


  • Offensive Threats: Pinsir, Scizor, Heracross, Yanmega, Venomoth.
  • Defensive Threats: Shuckle, Forretress, Armaldo, Volbeat.
  • Other 'Mons: Ninjask, Shedinja.


Rock: Rock is probably the most viable type in the C-tier, because of the variety of Pokemon available to use. It does have some hard hitters and some bulky Pokemon, but due to its bad typing and the fact that most teams carry a few Pokemon with EQ coverage make it average.


  • Offensive Threats: Aerodactyl, Rhyperior, Kabutops, Tyranitar, Rampardos.
  • Defensive Threats: Shuckle, Armaldo, Cradily, Omastar.
  • Other 'Mons: Aggron, Probopass, Regirock.


D-tier:

Ghost: Ghost is a type that suffers in DPP, mostly due to the low amount of Pokemon available for use. Getting resisted by Steel also does not help. Ghost also does not have many useful Pokemon, which is why it's in the D-tier. 


  • Offensive Threats: Gengar, Dusknoir, Rotom, Froslass, Mismagius. 
  • Defensive Threats: Spiritomb, Dusclops.
  • Other 'Mons: Drifblim, Shedinja.


Electric: Much like Ghost, Electric has a small number of good Pokemon to utilize. It's perhaps one of the hardest types to use as its matchups are very tough.


  • Offensive Threats: Magnezone, Magneton, Electivire, Rotom, Raikou, Luxray.
  • Defensive Threats: Rotom, Zapdos, Lanturn.
  • Other 'Mons: Jolteon, Manectric, Raichu.


Leave questions below, or suggestions.


Last edited by Fraction on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Endurr on Sun May 28, 2017 8:17 pm

first


skimmed through it and got a general idea, going to start this off with a nom for water to S
it seems too early for this but water is truly worthy of s rank thanks to its unrivaled versatility. its so hard to prepare for thanks to its different playstyles and how they are all dealt with differently.

also nomming fighting to drop to c, having a type restricted to offense only sorta sucks, especially when the threats that are present in current gens are not present in dpp (i.e the fighting megas, the musketeers, etc.)
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Fraction on Sun May 28, 2017 8:31 pm

Endurr wrote:[post]
Noted. Will be testing out both of these types to see if they warrant a raise and a drop respectively. 

Also congrats on being first.
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Mobutt on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:33 pm

second

Gonna suggest raise Psychic to A-tier. The type seems like a pretty dominant force in the metagame for some reasons. A: Most Psychic types can handle bug well-even Exeguttor sometimes-and as for Ghost and Dark? A huge surplus of Psychic types beat ghost types and dark, while offensive, has threats to worry about from Psychic ( *cough[*/b] Metagross [b]*cough* ) and doesn't have the defenses to sustain the onslaught.
Also add that Psychic types have a bevvy of options to use. The only thing really holding them back is stab coverage and physical hitters. But those aren't worrisome enough for B-tier.

A Psychic team to prove my point::

Our Lord your God @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Aeroblast
- Psychic
This thing is evil. It can function as a mean defensive wall to offensive types and can also form as a sp.defensive tank and setup sweep. I chose the latter, though there are many other ways to utilize it. Hell, full investment in HP wrecks everything. Even it's weaknesses don't bother it all that much ('cept for Rock, maybe??? Hydro Pump).

Nigel THORNBERRY (Metagross) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Double-Edge
Whatever tanks sp.defensive hits, click Metagross. Choice Scarf seems bad but it allows it to outspeed quite a lot for pure offense and catches the opponent off guard. MMash is reliable STAB, Z-Headdbutt is ditto, Double-Edge is for hitting anything that resists it's other moves, and Earthquake is just good stab.Oh, and it fucks over Fire types. Rip.

EZ (Bronzong) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate/Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Serious Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick
Very straightforward but still works. Choice tricks annoys the shit out of setup Pokemon using SR (and also effectively shuts down boosting for the opponent's Pokemon). SR is for setup. Zen Heabutt is when you can't explosion it or whatever. Explosion is the suicide move, plain and simple. Heatproof is when you want less suicide.

Click x (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
Ouch. Life Orb with max Sp-A and 135 of it hits very hard. Psychic is reliable STAB, Shadow Ball is for hitting Ghost types/other Psychic types (which jolly well need recognition). Focus Blast hits Dark type, another offensive one. Energy Ball is just the last slot for whatever else comes along. Synchronize because that's usable in certain situations.

Reckingson Beckingson (Claydol) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock/Reflect
- Toxic
Another wall. Claydol soaks up hits quite nicely and is a good asset for Psychic. Earth Power is just for hitting fire types (on which this shouldn't be on but EH), rapid spin gets rid of hazards, sr is for when Bronzong somehow just doesn't cut it and Toxic wears down stallers. Psychic really appreciates Reflect.

Sauron (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Because we need to hit EVERYTHING. Starmie is fast enough to outspeed a lot of things and has enough options to hit half the meta. 100 SpA, while not mind-boggling, works (slap a Choice Specs there andit hits real hard!), Surf is Surf, Thunderbolt hits Water and Flying types-again, useful-, Ice Beam is just for general coverage and hitting grass when it's needed and Psychic is good stab.
WHAM! I would not want to fight this any day, no no.


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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Mobutt on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:37 pm

Addition because I can't edit for some reason smh
You can't use this team, it's my personal example.
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Rean on Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:20 am

Mobutt wrote:Addition because I can't edit for some reason smh
You can't use this team, it's my personal example.

Maw here.
If you post a team on a forum everyone can read and copy-paste things from, it automatically becomes public resource.
Though whether or not anyone is actually going to use your team is another story.
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Mobutt on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:02 am

Oh rip.
Nevermind then. Anyways that's beside the point-the reason was to show how god awful Psychic is in this eta and it hopefully worked to an extent.
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Fraction on Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:42 pm

Psychic was always being considered for A-tier. I'll test out more Psychic teams when DPP CQ gets polled.
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Psychoreality on Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:13 am

Mobutt wrote:Oh rip.
Nevermind then. Anyways that's beside the point-the reason was to show how god awful Psychic is in this eta and it hopefully worked to an extent.

But if you're saying it's awful why are you considering it A-tier?
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Re: DPP CQ (Intro and Viability Rankings)

Post by Illario on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:19 am

i think he meant it's god awful to deal with.

... how'd i get here
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