Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

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Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Flare on Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:54 pm

Not fully complete but working on it biweekly if possible.

Open to all criticism.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hyanRHOrd_xAh9qSDEbG8YaKCgE8tavBWtvBtEQRC2U/edit?usp=sharing

Edit 1: TTar added to rock threats, Lycanroc removed plus explanation.
          Heatran and Scizor added to steel threats + better explanation for steel matchup
          Mamoswine moved to core and avalugg now "Potential core."

Edit 2: Lessened the ego.


Last edited by Flare on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:12 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Because updates.)
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by LumaSoul on Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:12 am

Avalugg isn't core? It's basically the only form of defense you have on Ice unless you want to run an unorthodox Piloswine. That and it provides your Rapid Spin support for Weavile/Cloyster. Mamoswine too, they're not only locked into offense/defense, they form a basis of the normal Ice type team.

How is Tyrantrum and Lycanroc a threat to Ice and not Tyranitar, the big boss of Rock? No mention of Heatran or Magearna on Steel threats? No mention of Empoleon and Scizor on Steel?

At least it's a work in progress, and hopefully these blanks are filled in.


Last edited by LumaSoul on Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more england)

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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Life's Rainbow on Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:22 am

How is Alolan Ninetales a mandatory member while Avalugg and Mamoswine are not?
Why would you run a band on Weavile? The thing still works fine with Life Orb.
Who even runs Cobalion?
Virizion can't learn Mach Punch, might wanna explain that part better.
Like half of the threats listed get countered by Avalugg or Mamoswine.
Seriously, how about Avalugg???
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Rocket Admin Lens on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:30 pm

I seriously doubt that Avalugg can be considered as an 'option' when in regards to making a team for Ice, by all cases a Pokemon that should be considered as a defensive option should be Cryogonal as it's not only a special defense switch in, it can also learn Freeze Dry to deal with Water Types and Rapid Spin to clear hazards.

In regards to Lucario being a serious threat when it comes to Steel looks more like a misjudgement since you don't see Lucario as often in Steel because there are Pokemon like Scizor and Empoleon that can hold against Ice Types very well.

There's also another issue with the team as a whole when Kyurem-W is pretty much the saving grace on the team and the term 'played correctly' should be more defined because Kyurem-W going down in a fight could be the end of the run for Ice.

There should also be more proof for this "near flawless record against Fire and Steel", because showing a chart with Ice being in the lead doesn't prove much in regards to the 'skill cap' of most roleplayers who participate within the RP. A suggestion for more solid proof in the future should be saved replays of consistent wins along with Ice being in the lead.
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Lux Gracetail on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:44 pm

A word on credentials. CQ is a weak (by actual ladder standards) pool of players, who usually only play types casually. Most players of Steel don't actually know how to use it to the top tier potential it has. Until he has shown replays of him beating Illusion Of Time on Fire and myself on Steel, I remain skeptical of his guide's validity.

I may note that pokemonhammer's Steel team consisted of picks such as Klingklang and Durant, and opted for Mega-Steelix over Heatran.

Further Critique:

Dewgong should never be considered over Walrein, it has inferior bulk, and a horrible movepool, i.e. it is completely outclassed in anything you would want it to do in that role.

Volcanion is picked much less as an Ace slot than Reshiram or Char-Y, and Chandelure is never run. Darmanitarn should considered be a higher threat.

Skipping Grass and Rock for now.

Steel. Really? Lucario and Cobalion? Latter NEVER used by serious players. Dialga or Heatran are just outright better. Metagross should be here, as should how to deal with Skarmory, or try to keep parity in the Hazard game. Heatran should also arguably be here. In fact, Steel really can't be summarised into three mons. Nearly everything a standard Steel team runs poses a direct threat, or threatens to wall out Ice.

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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Endurr on Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:13 pm

hey man, nice guide. i you covered somethings pretty well, so good job.

i agree with kyu-w and alolatales being core members, every team needs at least both of these.

avalugg - ice as a typing should not be "defending". with the job of keeping hazards off the field + soaking up phys attacks, it'll be worn down really quickly esp with rocks. i agree with this not being a "core" member.

weavile - band is meh, unless if you're using pursuit or something. lo gets the job done

alolaslash - it's vastly underrated. sd + icium z gives it a one-turn nuke that ohkos skarm and ferro with slight chip. it can be a spinner too, a la excadrill, but this makes it forgo eq/sd. still sort of better than avalugg tbh.

cloyster is meh.
dewgong is outclassed.

the steel matchup can be easy, as the opponent will usually juggle skarm/tran around to avoid kyu-w getting a kill. killing off one of those can lead to an easy victory. banded scizor may mow your team down, but know that water type's won't die easily. if you're down pretty badly, get hazards off, kyurem tanking a bp is your last resort. (very possible, people underestimate it's bulk.) i think jynx should get a mention bc putting shit to sleep is really lit, it can run a np + 2 attacks set or a sash counter set. sash counter is something i've been having fun with, bc no one expects it. although me mentioning here ruins the surprise factor, time to move onto np + 2 attacks lol.

tldr steel matchup is never auto win for steel (also yeah ice is probably never 6-0ing it either) some mons are underrated cool guide
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Flare on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:16 am

Life's Rainbow wrote:How is Alolan Ninetales a mandatory member while Avalugg and Mamoswine are not?

Mamoswine has now been moved into the "Core" category after a little bit of thinking. Avalugg will not be moved into core but will be put as "Potential Core"

Alolan Ninetales will continue to stay in Core due to it's speed and access to AVeil.


Last edited by Flare on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Flare on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:17 am

LumaSoul wrote:Avalugg isn't core? It's basically the only form of defense you have on Ice unless you want to run an unorthodox Piloswine. That and it provides your Rapid Spin support for Weavile/Cloyster. Mamoswine too, they're not only locked into offense/defense, they form a basis of the normal Ice type team.

How is Tyrantrum and Lycanroc a threat to Ice and not Tyranitar, the big boss of Rock? No mention of Heatran or Magearna on Steel threats? No mention of Empoleon and Scizor on Steel?

At least it's a work in progress, and hopefully these blanks are filled in.

Working on it now, I appreciate the advice!
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Cave_Hamster Cubone on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:26 pm

I think serperior could be the cause of some problems to ice considering leaf storm and hp fire and such. not as big as breloom or anything, just something you might want to watch for
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Re: Flare's Guide to Ice in Conquest [WIP]

Post by Flare on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:45 pm

Cave_Hamster Cubone wrote:I think serperior could be the cause of some problems to ice considering leaf storm and hp fire and such. not as big as breloom or anything, just something you might want to watch for

Noted, thanks for your input!
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