Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

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Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Sabre on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:54 pm

Inspired by Flare's guide to Ice, I bring you a guide to my favorite type Poison. Constructive criticism allowed.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-PV9xpqTrkXA7J5yzJTBVtf0dIKwEEF45QhWQRZMkGM/edit?usp=sharing

Also, I would love more matchup information. I only have a small pool of actual matchups that I know and I had to analyze the type if I didn't know the matchup.

UPDATES
- Moved Nihilego on Offense down to C tier and both Gengars up to A tier on offense due to multiple suggestions
- Removed references to Baton Pass because I didn't know it was banned in Ubers
- Moved Venusaur to Balanced S tier due to suggestions
- Dropped Dragalge to B tier.

CONSIDERING
- Dropping Weezing and Beedrill significantly, although Beedrill is geared to an offensive team (which isn't very good for Poison, balance with MVenu is better). Weezing is geared towards Stall, which is hard to do in Conquest and in Monotype. I'm currently trying to work my way up the ranks in Monotype with Poison to gain more experience.


Last edited by Sabre on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:46 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Psychoreality on Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:08 pm

I would very rarely use Nihilego in a CQ meta because Mega Venusaur just covers your bases so much better and M-Bee has generally wider uses. I agree with the majority of what you're saying though, it seems very well-thought-out and makes sense.
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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Sabre on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:03 pm

Psychoreality wrote:I would very rarely use Nihilego in a CQ meta because Mega Venusaur just covers your bases so much better and M-Bee has generally wider uses. I agree with the majority of what you're saying though, it seems very well-thought-out and makes sense.

I'm considering swapping Nihilego and Mega Gengar, although I'd like some evidence for Gengar's viability before it.

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by SleekzZero on Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:39 am

Hello, its Rhunz/Destium here ;;
I like the content of the doc, it’s very detailed asides from Poison being very predictable, yes, and it plots out important key features of Poison. But I do have some opinions I’d like to share.

#1: Just like Psycho here, Nihilego doesn’t seem to be a very good choice for Poison. There are other pokemons that perform as well as it does w/o the need of taking up a legend spot. Pokemons like Mega Venu or Gengar for that matter can cover up most weaknesses and deal with offensive mons. Take Mega Venusaur for that matter. Its ability helps it weaken fire and ice type attacks- perfect for setting up. Sub-leech seed is probably the best set to ensure stall and just to annoy people.

#2: Dragalge doesn’t seem to be a good choice as offense. Despite decent Sp.Atk and Sp.Def (paired with assault vest), physical attackers end up knocking out Dragalge faster if not played right. I would reccomend Nidoking as substitute, because with its Ability Sheer Force, plus LO, it deals more damage and can do better than Dragalge.

Again, these are just my opinions, but hopefully you take them into consideration.
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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Sabre on Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:37 am

SleekzZero wrote:Hello, its Rhunz/Destium here ;;
I like the content of the doc, it’s very detailed asides from Poison being very predictable, yes, and it plots out important key features of Poison. But I do have some opinions I’d like to share.

#1: Just like Psycho here, Nihilego doesn’t seem to be a very good choice for Poison. There are other pokemons that perform as well as it does w/o the need of taking up a legend spot. Pokemons like Mega Venu or Gengar for that matter can cover up most weaknesses and deal with offensive mons. Take Mega Venusaur for that matter. Its ability helps it weaken fire and ice type attacks- perfect for setting up. Sub-leech seed is probably the best set to ensure stall and just to annoy people.

#2: Dragalge doesn’t seem to be a good choice as offense. Despite decent Sp.Atk and Sp.Def (paired with assault vest), physical attackers end up knocking out Dragalge faster if not played right. I would reccomend Nidoking as substitute, because with its Ability Sheer Force, plus LO, it deals more damage and can do better than Dragalge.

Again, these are just my opinions, but hopefully you take them into consideration.

Not too sure on Dragalge. Nidoking is S tier for both, so it's implied it outclasses it. I might move it down to B tier.

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Endurr on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:37 pm

dragalge in b is fitting, because it's implied that there are better choices than it but it's still ranked for the niche it has (extremely powerful sludge waves/draco meteors)

also roserade for b/c on offense could be cool, it's offensive spikes set (leafstorm/bomb/spikes/hpfire) w/ lo and technician is sort of cool. not sure if its leaf storm or something else.
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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Sabre on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:46 pm

Endurr wrote:dragalge in b is fitting, because it's implied that there are better choices than it but it's still ranked for the niche it has (extremely powerful sludge waves/draco meteors)

also roserade for b/c on offense could be cool, it's offensive spikes set (leafstorm/bomb/spikes/hpfire) w/ lo and technician is sort of cool. not sure if its leaf storm or something else.

Not too sure about Roserade when you have Nidoking and Gengar.

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Appendix A: The Ultimate Team

Post by Sabre on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:48 pm

After much deliberation, I've come up with the ultimate Poison team. Actually, barely any deliberation at all.

Crobat / Mega Venusaur / Toxapex / Alolan Muk / Gengar / Nidoking

Nihilego is the Monotype substitute for Gengar, but since you can't have two legends, I put Gengar in its place.

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Some Considerations

Post by Sabre on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Considering bumping Beedrill and Weezing down. Vote on this post or comment if you agree.

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Flare on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:02 am

In the matchup against ice, teaming up with steel does not always guarantee a victory for the 2v1. Depends more on the player and the team they have build for SvI (Thank's Lux c:)
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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Sabre on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:17 pm

Flare wrote:In the matchup against ice, teaming up with steel does not always guarantee a victory for the 2v1. Depends more on the player and the team they have build for SvI (Thank's Lux c:)

That's true, but if you can't deal with Toxapex, Ice will probably lose the Poison matchup. If you do pack, say Jynx or Mamoswine, A-Muk checks Jynx outright and Mamo has to get a high roll on EQ with Rocks or Spikes up (even then Poison has Crobat) to beat Toxapex and Toxapex still does nearly half Mamo's HP with the possibility of a Burn. Couple that with MVenu's Thick Fat and Mamo can be dealt with. Scarf KyuW can easily be dealt with by AMuk provided the Poison player handles the possibility of Earth Power (which can be mitigated by Crobat) and Specs KyuW is outsped by Specs Gengar and will likely get Focus Blasted. Provided it isn't a Focus Miss. Besides that, it's an even matchup.

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:46 pm

Nihilego definitely shouldn't be at C.

It is a fast special attacker with coverage no poison type gets (power gem, tbolt) to use properly. Coupled with beastboost and a scarf, it becomes almost unstoppable after some softening on the enemy team. B or even A is more fitting, and I'd personally rank it A.

Venomoth needs to go to C. It gets quite hurt by hazard stacks (read : demolished), need at least 1 if not 2 boosts to do something, and sleep powder only gets you so far with 75% hit chance.

I'd also add Roserade to the offensive category

Where is Crobat on offensive? Mentioned a few times but never appears. A banded set with bravebird, uturn and 2 filler moves (other STAB and defog?) runs like ace with some web support.

Why the 5 'mons on S on balanced? I mean, nidoking and nidoqueen aren't definitely on the same tier (Nidoking will almost always be better.)

I suggest adding a special shoutout to Ariados and Seviper, even if at a C rank for support/idk and offensive respectly. They need to be paired up, or at least seviper needs some speed control. Why? Ariados brings webs to poison, and you want webs to spam slower but stronger 'mons. Example : specs nihilego, LO/specs nidoking. This is however a completly different debate, and since we talk about a tier list, Ariados deserves its spot. Maybe a 'support' category with spikers, hazards, speed control and the likes?

For seviper, its coverage is just bullshit. Flamethrower, EQ, knock off, giga drain, sucker punch, dark pulse, aqua tail, support moves with taunt, glare, haze, switcheroo... It's some kind of 'joke' pokemon that suddenly is able to get 2 kills with some web support. I've ran it consistently on my own poison team (if needed, I will link it here), and it never, ever, disappointed. C rank on offensive seems good to me.

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Re: Sabre's Guide to Poison in CQ

Post by Endurr on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:18 pm

Nihilego is a good scarfer, but it takes up a legend slot, and the scarfer slot can be done by Gengar as well, move to B at least.

Also, advocating Venomoth to drop to C where you want Seviper to be at?

???

Venomoth, unlike Seviper, is at least much more consistent. It doesn't require webs (which requires a teamslot for Ariados, a already borderline unviable pokemon), and it's more of a cleaner with a very strong nukes. Take Mantine, a common bug resist with good spdef, and watch it take 60-70 from a z-bugbuzz if its physdef. Switch-in? Nah. You can even sleep powder it (reminder that 75% accuracy still favors the user), get another QD, and comfortably KO it.
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