A big rant about things that need to change.

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A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by TheOneAndOnlyYin on Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:51 am

It's about time I broadcast my own opinions in full about the RPing room - I've been in the room since 2013 (I was only 9 years old at the time, woah) and I've seen some...improvements, but many things have gone a bit downhill too. I'd be surprised if anyone reads this full post, but here goes nothing, because a lot of things need to change.

New users.
New users come often, but I rarely see them staying anymore. In general, the RP room can seem very complex to the new user's eye - many new users are of a rather young age, usually around 11-13 from what I see, however sometimes even younger (as stated before, I was 9 when I joined). As a result, many things seem confusing to the young mind. Some people aren't as smart as others and, while I believe the .site, .orp and .rpq commands are useful, I still see many confused new users.

Don't get me wrong, the rules, official RP list and RP quickstart guide all look fine in my eyes, but it seems many people don't read them or, in some cases, staff aren't even online to pull out the commands. I've had to tell new users myself to PM the bot the commands, in which most cases they don't, or they don't know how to even PM.

But the main issue in my eyes is the community not making new users feel welcome enough. Sure, the staff keep up the friendly approach, but many community members avoid RPing with new RPers, whether it be because they only one-line or because they don't know the rules. People can't learn if we don't help them, and if nobody RPs with them in the first place, it's very hard for them to get used to the rules since they haven't had any time to get things right or wrong and learn from their mistakes.

I suggest that the community takes action upon this by actually RPing with new or inexperienced RPers and politely showing them how to improve via constructive criticism.

Shitpost.

This is probably the biggest topic I'll discuss. Shitpost. Now, for anyone here reading who doesn't know, RP bot defines shitpost as "any message sent with no relevance to the topic of the room or the current RP. This can include highlighting mods for reasons irrelevant to moderating (greetbotting or just annoying them)," (Bot didn't send me the second post of this, might wanna fix that if you're reading, Lux).

Between RPs, shitpost is still incredibly common. I don't believe there's much the mods can do that they haven't already done, so this is a call to you regular users out there - don't shitpost between RPs. I've seen how frustrated mods get when they have to warn multiple times and even set up modchat in setup time.

However, I believe there's a bigger issue than just between RPs - shitpost IN RP. Don't get me wrong, some users can pull off "spoof" characters without it getting obnoxious (hats off to you, Gekko), but many times a "spoof OC" can become obnoxious and shitposty.

In general, shitposting in RP is frustrating for your fellow RPers, the mods, and, of course, the host. PokeHigh seems to be the main culprit.

Thing is, the RP bot only defines shitpost as a message with no relevance to the RP. This leads false beliefs that shitpost only exists in OOC and outside of the RP, since any post in RP is considered relevant to it. I think the bot definition of shitpost needs a change. People shit around in RPs a lot. Being a host of PokeHigh, I've had a whole heap of stress from shitposters and people who break rules - from people using fidget spinners in-RP to squatting at break time, these things are just irrelevant, annoying and, overall, just shitposty.

It could also just be called "people not taking the RP seriously", but when a host tells someone to stop, they usually don't. I'd pinpoint a few certain culprits, but I don't want to cause drama or seem to be attacking anyone. This is mostly a call to you regs out there who shitpost, but I believe mods could be a little bit firmer on shitpost in-RP, especially if it's causing a host stress.

Realism

Alright, yes, this is the pokemon world, full of unrealistic creatures and whatnot, but I'm sick of people being overly unrealistic. This is way more leaning towards regular RPs here than the mods, but many people do all sorts of things seemingly unrealistic, such as grabbing items out of nowhere or...well, doing many things in PH that you wouldn't do in your school. Someone in my PH tried to burn down a tree once, and I don't think anyone would do that in their own school.

Don't get me wrong, it is a pokemon universe and is probably fairly different, but people should at least follow host's rules on realism. If a host asks for you to be realistic, please do. This also applies in FR if your RP partner asks the same thing.

Amphy

Amphy used to open daily, but now I barely see it open and have to deal with RPs I personally dislike, causing me to sit around in boredom waiting for a RP to end. Even Rusty used to open, but now it only ever opens for schedules - I understand scheduled RPs are priority, but can we get back to opening it at 150 users if no scheduled RP is on? I understand sometimes there isn't enough staff to run it, but often there is. However, on that note about staff...

Lack in Staff

Don't get me wrong, we have many staff members, but...timezones. Most staff members, as far as I can see, are around at a specific time, the "active hours". However, in the "dead hours" of early-UK morning, it isn't uncommon to see no staff at all. This can lead to shitposters and the likes. Staff need to cover these dead hours more - which, from my experience, begin before I wake up at about 7am British Summer Time/BST, and end around about 4pm BST, when most americans are awake. Sometimes dead hours lead into around 8pm BST because of Americans being at school, but I suggest we get more drivers/mods that cover those times. It has been seemingly better lately, but there's many times where I see no staff online.

A Message To Hosts

To hosts - don't be afraid to call mods on annoying users in your RP. You may think the mods won't deal with things, but they will - obeying a host is a RP room rule and if shitposters and RPers don't listen to you or abide by your rules, you CAN ask mods to deal with them. Don't be afraid - mods are people too and they won't bite.

Conclusion

In conclusion, there are probably many points I've missed. These things stand out the most to me, but if you wish to share your opinion, feel free to comment. Keep in mind I don't RP in stuff like CQ, so I haven't addressed CQ salt, etc, because I'm not often part of it so I don't have much to say on the matter.

Most of this was aimed at RPers rather than the mods, but I'd love it if the mods helped the regulars with sticking to this if possible. Also, like I said before, please update the definition on shitpost to include stuff about in-RP shitpost...uwu

Thanks so much if you read the entire thing.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Articuno on Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 am

To start off, I appreciate you articulating your thoughts in a mature manner and I hope I can address some of the concerns you're having at the moment.

New Users:
On the topic of new users, we (staff) are already in the process of creating a system that will make it much easier for new users to become familiar with the room and its roleplays. Without giving too much away, we're hoping to roll this system out soon (hopefully in the next month or so). This system will also extend to existing users that hope to gain more familiarity with certain aspects of the room, such as specific roleplays or hosting. I know I'm being kind of vague here but I promise this is already being addressed.

Shitpost:
The issue with shitpost is that we don't want the room to feel too oppressive and stringent. For the most part we will allow people to talk about stuff in between RPs, because if you are forced to only talk about RP it can get a little bit annoying or tiring. The problem comes when it gets disruptive or overbearing, which it is prone to do. In-RP itself, this is also when you should call a staff member (as you've mentioned in your post). I know calling staff all the time seems like a drag but honestly it's the best way to get something done. If someone is being a real disruption, we can mute them.

Realism:
Unfortunately there's not a whole lot I can say about this, other than that people use their imaginations in different ways. From a personal standpoint, I always try to keep my RPs as realistic as possible, but there are also people who just don't think that way and like to do things differently. When people with differing ideas of realism clash, whether it be in a FR plot or in a group RP like PokeHigh, it's just not going to work. Unfortunately this is a side-effect of having RPs that can involve lots of people at the same time. The best thing to do is set an example by making sure YOU are not godmodding and not responding to outlandish attempts at RP. 

Amphy:
I have also noticed Rusty and Amphy being closed more often, and I don't have a good answer for this, honestly. It might come down to staff issues, it might be because Amphy doesn't always have the playerbase to support multiple RPs, I don't know. The main problem with both Amphy and Rusty is that oftentimes only a single RP will run before it's just dead. I think this might be a reason that more often than not, both rooms are now closed.

Lack in Staff:
Staff always deal with their real life before PS. We are never going to force people to be online if they don't want to be. As for promotions, we will look at those where necessary, but as far as I know we get enough staff to cover all timezones, and if we don't, our staff know enough to grab a global in case things get bad.

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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by SleekzZero on Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:43 pm

I get what you’re saying. The room really does need more changes to make it more user-friendly, but let me state out my opinions first.

Shitpost
Just like what Arti said, we can’t just outright stop people from using OOC whenever they like. It would be too oppresive, and the RP room would really look like a tyrant’s zone if it did happen. We just really can’t stop them from doing such, so the best way to prevent them is to just let the moderators handle it.

Lack in Staff
Staff are humans as well- we don’t control their lives. But maybe we can get other current voice who are more active than usual to either temporarily assume a driver status to watch over the room. This has been done for quite a while now, so there isn’t really a problem with that.

Realism
As much as we do use the term of roleplay as to diverge your imagination and create something fun, sometimes we just can’t tell others what we exactly want. We can’t force them, but we can only guide them. Keep in mind that PS! is a website with the majority being aged 14 and below, so we can’t really expect them to roleplay like exemplary people do.

New Users
New users, for me, seem to be the main problem. Some of them blend in quickly and adapt to the room, but others struggle to cope with the room. Is it because of the people inside it who throw them off, or is it because the RP room is too complex? I think it’s both, as far as I’m concerned. I agree with you, new users tend to not stay long because they don’t get the help they ask for. Despite the .rpq’s and all other commands, some people just don’t read those stuff, and they prefer someone telling them what to do exactly. In short, maybe the staff should be more hands on when dealing with new users, so that they don't end up banned.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Allyson(Ninetales) on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:14 am

Since most of the matters have been well articulated and answered, I will only add a few answers of my own.

New Users
It is not limited to staff and voices to actually guide them through the room, but of course if you want to do it yourself/no one is available even a regular can guide them through the room. But of course the best people for the job are the voices and above since they have a rank and a new user would most likely listen to them.

Shitposting
Shitposting can also come from RP groups, cliques or whatevs. Anyhow shitposting can start when someone defends their friend then senseless and bandwagon comments are made which only makes the argument worse.

Lack in Staff
As stated above, staff are humans with their own problems at hand and we cant just force them to do a job, especially a job that doesn't even have a pay. There are many times that some of the other voiced users that are usually online in the dead hours get temporary driver to moderate for an hour or so until someone else comes in. Globals can also be called, but they are only for moderating and are unlikely to be involved in the room's affairs like rp polls and such.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Aranda Ixia on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:29 am

I think that most matters are covered already, so I'll just add my opinion regarding new users.

I've personally tried to guide some new users in the room through the PMs, to prevent siaruption in the room. 50% of the time, these "new users" are trolls, 50% of the time, they are genuine new users. I must admit that a few months ago, this ratio was 80/20 in favour of genuine new users. Despite this, I feel that we still need to try to help them. We could be accidentally ignoring genuine new users who may seem like a troll at first glance. We must not be perturbed by trolls that we tried to help. I feel that we should just simply ignore the troll and carry on.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by TheOneAndOnlyYin on Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:28 pm

Just to get something out - I know staff are only human and can't always be online - I was never intending to say the current staff need to be online more. I was leaning much more towards needing new staff that are active during the dead hours rather than forcing staff to stay around longer or in different times - I fully understand staff are human (I can't be online always, either) and have lives to deal with, I was leaning towards promoting some of the active voices who are around in dead hours or maybe giving some active regular users some consideration, as I think some regs would make great staff one day. I never wanted to imply that our current staff should be around more, just wanted to imply we need a few extra staff who are around in the times our current staff team can't be around in.

But thanks to all your feedback, advice and opinions on my matters! uwu
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Firefox (Flareon) on Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:57 am

I just want to add my two cents about new users.

Even after your rant, many people still don't seem to roleplay with newer users. For one, perhaps the staff could help encourage the regular users to roleplay with the newer/inexperienced users. Perhaps then, they could feel more welcome here, and plus, the more experienced users could give constructive criticism to them, too.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Allyson(Ninetales) on Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:42 pm

Firefox (Flareon) wrote:I just want to add my two cents about new users.

Even after your rant, many people still don't seem to roleplay with newer users. For one, perhaps the staff could help encourage the regular users to roleplay with the newer/inexperienced users. Perhaps then, they could feel more welcome here, and plus, the more experienced users could give constructive criticism to them, too.
I don't really see how "many people still don't seem to roleplay with newer users". From what I understand, I think you're saying that no one interacts when a new user roleplays in FR with: *insert paragraph* (open) imo that's not the best course of action when you're new since its most likely that they wouldn't join you since they don't know you. When I came back, even I had problems in FR since no one actually approached me when I opened up for a roleplay since I was gone for months and no one actually knows me. In a way if they want someone to roleplay with them they have to join in one that's open, since they wont be rejected that way.
Otherwise, you can't just force people to roleplay with someone if they don't want. In the first place why would anyone roleplay for 2 hrs in FR with a stranger? It's really rare since ideally rp'ing with someone you know is more comfortable and the story flow has low chance to go awkward, specially if you've already rp'd with the person before.
In a way, new users actually have to let people know they're capable of roleplaying and keeping up. I'm not saying to just let new users wander alone and ignore them until they prove their worth, but what I'm saying is that they have to do something good that would earn them respect as a roleplayer and there are many ways to do that (like actually following rules, being a sport, being nice and approachable, excelling in a roleplay, being a great host or being an overall decent roleplayer)
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Articuno on Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:58 pm

I think you're being a little too optimistic about roleplayers in general. 

Please keep in mind that our average userbase ranges from about 12-18, with the majority below 16. This extends to new users as well. 

I'm not trying to say every new user is new to RPing or bad at writing, but a new user isn't going to get anywhere if people aren't willing to extend a hand and RP with them. That is the way to make new users feel alienated and discouraged. No, no one is obligated to RP with anyone. But you can, out of the goodness of your heart and a willingness to help, RP with someone you've never RPed with before. 

"I'm not saying to just let new users wander alone and ignore them until they prove their worth, but what I'm saying is that they have to do something good that would earn them respect as a roleplayer"


Everything you listed is basically something that a user who's been in the room for a while would know, so it's completely contradictory to your statement. Is someone going to immediately know all the rules when they first join? No. Is someone going to be nice, approachable, and affable while they're confused about what's going on? They can, but you shouldn't expect them to be 100% smiles and rainbows. The room is confusing. Can they excel in an RP they have no idea how to play? Of course not. Hosting is even more difficult! 


Being a decent writer is also not required to gain respect - or even someone to RP with. Much of this sounds somewhat elitist, as the main point of the RP room is to allow people to have fun. 


So I would say that new users actually do rely quite a bit on those who have been there for a while... to just take a chance and help them out. Even if it's just one Freeroam, that's only two hours of your time out of how many that you've already spent in the room?

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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Lawful Evil on Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:53 pm

im surprised you skipped over rusty and amphy being closed so often recently. amphy barely ever opens for more than two hours at a time(if it does open at all) and rusty has only opened once or twice for non scheduled reasons in the past MONTH. i mean obviously rusty is just meant as an overflow room but amphy was meant for customs etc that would never really run in main, and it seems that theres been a huge slump in activity for amphy, since most of the people that frequented it have moved on or been banned, along with the fact that it barely opens.

i think this in turn is squashing some of the creativity the rp community has had, i barely ever see any new customs being run in main, and if i do see any they just immediately get overshadowed by a rp like mm or fr. theres no doubt that amphy was important for running customs since FR couldnt be run there and MM/cruise/conquest arent as popular there, and the playerbase wasn't as massive as main's, which made the amphy community feel smaller yet familiar. this also allowed newer docmakers to gain some traction and practice before hosting somewhere like main, because there wasn't as much competition.

so, with rusty and amphy being closed so frequently nowadays, what will happen now?

im really hoping this rut of inactivity for both rusty and amphy is only temporary because both these rooms and especially amphy play a big part of the community. the room i have spent the most time rping in is amphy, so im really sad to see it so inactive nowadays because i had so many memorable rps there.

I miss the old Amphy, the always gold Amphy
Always open Amphy, custom hosting Amphy
I hate the new Amphy, without the old crew Amphy
The never new Amphy, spaz in the rooms Amphy


Last edited by Lawful Evil on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Special Operations! on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:34 pm

New Users

Arti said she's making a system to help new users or something like that, which is nice. However, regular users not interacting with newer users is something that cannot be fixed by staff. If the majority of regular users don't help new people then that's just tough shit, they can't be forced. But they can do it from the good of their hearts!

Shitpost

You go on to say that shitpost is incredibly common in between rps and that anything that doesn't have to due with the RP is shitpost. In between RPs it is rather common for people to discuss various topics or just banter around a bit. When it gets excessive that's when the warns do start to come in indeed. Also "Don't shitpost in between RPs." I'll be sure to follow that when you got that % Very Happy. Also you don't have to hide the person doing squats in between classes in Pokehigh, that was me. lol

Realism

Roleplaying is a chance for people to be unrealistic. Isn't that part of the whole premise of roleplaying? Being able to do stuff you can't do in real life? Don't expect realism in peoples rps because it's not real life but if a host demands realism then sure, it is their rp after all. You mention your points are things that "NEED TO CHANGE." However, if mods did crack down on users for not being realistic it would be an extremely oppressive environment for users while at the same time restricting creativity.

Amphy

Yeah Amphy isn't open a lot. "Sit around in boredom waiting for an RP to end." My guidance for that is to go outside or do something else while an rp you don't like is going on. From personal experience from myself and others, it works very well!

Lack in Staff

Unfortunately staff are volunteers of the room and their roles don't fit in to actual jobs. That means that they cannot and should not be forced to cover hours that are usually dead. Nothing more to say about that.

A message to Hosts

yes listen to hosts homies

This was my opinions and thoughts on your posts, feel free to respond with your feedback.
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by TheOneAndOnlyYin on Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:57 pm

Special Operations, I'm gonna reply to all your statements separately, so here goes -

"If the majority of regular users don't help new people then that's just tough shit, they can't be forced. But they can do it from the good of their hearts!"

I know many regs may not want to, but calling it "tough shit" isn't what I'd recommend - if Arti wasn't already on it and making a system, I woulda recommended at least encouraging users more often (such as in the roomintro/a motd etc) to help out new users rather than calling it "tough shit" because our userbase won't grow and develop if people don't feel welcomed.

"In between RPs it is rather common for people to discuss various topics or just banter around a bit."

Yeah, I do understand this and don't need to be told twice.

"I'll be sure to follow that when you got that %"

Is this some kind of joke or do you imply someone like me would ever get a rank? Either way, that's funny. Pfft.

"Also you don't have to hide the person doing squats in between classes in Pokehigh, that was me. lol"

Yeah, I know it was you - I was unsure whether it'd be a good idea to state it was you. I'm hoping you've attempted to change your ways on that by now because I'm not the only host getting stressed from your shitposting, jus' saying. I don't particularly hate you, as anyone can improve, but lemme just say you need to tone down on that. Just my advice to you. uwu'

"Roleplaying is a chance for people to be unrealistic. Isn't that part of the whole premise of roleplaying? Being able to do stuff you can't do in real life? Don't expect realism in peoples rps because it's not real life but if a host demands realism then sure, it is their rp after all. You mention your points are things that "NEED TO CHANGE." However, if mods did crack down on users for not being realistic it would be an extremely oppressive environment for users while at the same time restricting creativity. "

Alright, this seems to be the biggest thing. Yes, unrealistic stuff can be cool, imaginative and fun. I was referring more to two things -

Unrealistic stuff when a host says not to.
Unrealistic stuff in a godmoddy situation.

To elaborate on the second, I mean like, pulling an item out of absolutely nowhere, suddenly having something you didn't have 2 seconds ago or using powers unrealistic for your species. I suppose this should just be classed as "godmodding."

Also, yeah, my title says "must" and this isn't really a must...yeah, it's slightly misleading and I can see that.

"My guidance for that is to go outside or do something else while an rp you don't like is going on. From personal experience from myself and others, it works very well!"

Most of my time spent on PS is at night so going outside isn't an option and I don't often have much to do - this may be the case for many RPers. Also, sometimes I feel I only get the need to RP at certain times - I sometimes think "i'm in the mood for a RP" but a RP I personally dislike is on and by the time it's over I've lost my motivation again. I dunno about other people's experiences, however.

"Unfortunately staff are volunteers of the room and their roles don't fit in to actual jobs. That means that they cannot and should not be forced to cover hours that are usually dead. Nothing more to say about that. "

Like I stated in my second post in this thread that shouldn't be too hard to find...lemme quote it, it's easier.

TheOneAndOnlyYin wrote:Just to get something out - I know staff are only human and can't always be online - I was never intending to say the current staff need to be online more. I was leaning much more towards needing new staff that are active during the dead hours rather than forcing staff to stay around longer or in different times - I fully understand staff are human (I can't be online always, either) and have lives to deal with, I was leaning towards promoting some of the active voices who are around in dead hours or maybe giving some active regular users some consideration, as I think some regs would make great staff one day. I never wanted to imply that our current staff should be around more, just wanted to imply we need a few extra staff who are around in the times our current staff team can't be around in.


TL;DR I understand staff can't be online at certain times and I was moreso suggesting promoting the voices who are online in dead hours to drivers. I don't think it's "the staff need to be online more", it's "we need more staff in a wider range of timezones", because most staff seem to be in similar timezones. I know some timezones are full of countries that don't get easy internet access and yada yada, but I know a few people (regs and voices) who are around in dead hours.


But, of course, thanks for your feedback and thanks for giving this feedback in a calm, civilised manner (tbh I wasn't expecting that because I know your shitposting in RP room, but hopefully you've changed for the better, again this isn't hate on you ;3;)
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

Post by Special Operations! on Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:00 am

I will never not change the way I roleplay. Jake Paulers for life
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Re: A big rant about things that need to change.

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