[Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by MoniStar on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:12 pm

Chihiro's AlterEgo wrote:The thing about Normal is is that you don't have to rely on legendaries or big megas as much as other types.
This enough seems good enough to put it on the higher tiers. When you've got a type which is renowned for it's versatility and strong Mons... Then realize Knights can use most if not all of them? Giving you several "Warlord Level" (In terms of strength) people on the one team, It's quite devastating for the regular user to try get through all that (Speaking from personal experience anyway)

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Zester on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:19 pm

Flying can be viable, Yes, but it his hindered greatly by the recoil of choosing between Legend or mega. It even has a Hazard to deal great damage on the spot, and if you get rid of your defogger, it's like trying to keep one trick roomer on a team alive while the rest of your team is hinidered by other things, it can't really work.

Flying DOES in-fact have MANY offensive potenials, an real damaging power, but it's hindered by Stealth Rocks intently, as well as a good number of Legends or Megas that could easily be used, but can't. I say it stays High Tier for now.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Divine Aerial-Noivern on Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:01 pm

I think Electric should be given another chance.
It has a high SpA and Speed output, making it a good choice for sweepers. Electric types also have 1 weakness and is effective against 2 types.

Sasha (Galvantula) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch

Honestly, I think Galvantula defines bug.
Why can't it define electric? It has sweeping capabilities and a good setup. Thunder, because of STAB, and It covers Water and Flying Types; The Top Tier threats of Conquest. Bug Buzz for Ground, the bane of electric altogether. Sticky Web for it's setup capability, and Volt Switch to get him away from threats.

Pootis (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance

A very good Pokémon in general, Rotom-W has capabilities of stalling with Pain-Split, Keep it's bulk with Will-O-Wisp, and give a high output of damage with Hydro Pump and Rain Dance.
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Galom on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:22 pm

Your lack of Volt Switch on Rotom-Wash absolutely alarms me.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:49 pm

Ok, Normal should remain high-mid, because it absolutely gets destroyed by Fighting. Even with that Staraptor, it usually gets absolutely destroyed, and its defensive core of Porygon2 and Chansey just get destroyed by anything with knock off. And, for Staraptor, either you run scarf or you get reliable recovery from roost, but the inability of being able to recover and only being able to at best kill 1-2 fighting pokemon. Audino-M is a great addition to Normal, but unfortunately you cannot really use it unless you want to lose offensive pressure. Normal stays High-Mid because of this confliction of choices, and because it will have difficulty dealing with some teams, so I'd say no to letting it be a High threat in this forums.

Chihiro's AlterEgo wrote:The thing about Normal is is that you don't have to rely on legendaries or big megas as much as other types. Knights always have a clear good option in Mega Lopunny, and Normal Warlords have an easy wrecking ball if used right in Mega Kangaskhan. There's not a huge set of legendaries that are used because they are the best in Monotype that are heavily limited because you can only have 1 or a mega (e.g. Flying, though it is still versatile as shit) The core S Tiers on the viability thread aren't even restricted at all (slap pory-2, chansey, staraptor dere u go defense..) and none of the Pokemon below except for the only viable mega really (mega audino and pidgeot are lol). Fighting is a bad matchup, but you have Staraptor so the matchup is still somewhat playable and you can ally with it so you're not going to instantly get wreckd'. Unsure about other type matchups, please mention them here, but I think Normal is either at a good spot right now or maybe up to high tier.
Alright, who doesn't have a pokemon with knock off these days? If not, you're setting yourself to get absolutely destroyed by anything that heavily relies on its item too much, such as Chansey. So knock off can instantly cripple both of the main defensive cores, even against a type that doesn't even have a typical type advantage such as Electric vs. Normal with an Eelektross vs. Chansey. Even then, if a team doesn't have a fighting move, then they are setting themselves up to be destroyed by Steel. And even if you can't beat Chansey, you can still overpower it with sheer force. It just doesn't really make sense for me for it to be High with such glaring flaws. But Normal is a fantastic type, and I think it should stay where its at in the rankings. Sure, it has powerful pokemon, but so does Grass in Shaymin-Sky and Breloom, but that doesn't mean Grass is very good. And even without Knock off, a strong enough physical attacker can balk at Chansey. Even with Kangaskhan, Kangaskhan is still being outsped by alot, 100 isn't as great as you think, even with +1 priority Sucker Punch. I don't have anything against Normal, just old thoughts of "The only thing preventing Normal from being a Top-Tier threat is it gets horribly wrecked by Fighting. But it does have extremely good matchups against other types with its insane amount of support options (Smeargle anyone?), and its bulky defensive core will make you think twice before you engage Normal is a CQ battle.

Alright, Ground shouldn't be moved to Top, and because of Water's "dominance" of the Metagame, it just shouldn't. Water has very many pokemon that can rip through Gastrodon, such as Keldeo, Greninja, anything that has physical power, cough, Kabutops, Azumarill, anything like that. While some experienced players of Ground can laugh at their type advantages, there is a fair degree of luck and good plays to be had if you can beat Water with Ground. As for Grass, I never have really feared grass as Ground, I always just thought Grass wasn't as a big of threat as Water or Ice is to Ground. So stay classy high, Ground. In my opinion rofl.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by bote on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:43 pm

Divine Aerial-Noivern wrote:Honestly, I think Galvantula defines bug.
Why can't it define electric? It has sweeping capabilities and a good setup. Thunder, because of STAB, and It covers Water and Flying Types; The Top Tier threats of Conquest. Bug Buzz for Ground, the bane of electric altogether. Sticky Web for it's setup capability, and Volt Switch to get him away from threats.

Hold on. Let me just get this straight. Galvantula is only used for sticky webs. Thats it. Most electric pokemon are fast so they don't exactly need this support. Why would you use it as an all out attacker when its outclass by thunderus, who may take up a legend spot but is faster and does more damage. You could only really use it to abuse specs modest sets.

Divine Aerial-Noivern wrote:A very good Pokémon in general, Rotom-W has capabilities of stalling with Pain-Split, Keep it's bulk with Will-O-Wisp, and give a high output of damage with Hydro Pump and Rain Dance.

(Okay first off why rain dance when you can have volt switch) Rotom-W may be a good pokemon for electric that I would personally put on any electric team, however its not electric's best pokemon. Those spots go are your legend pokemons: Zapdos, Thunderus-I, and maybe Zekrom. Rotom-W does not define electric as much as the 3 other mons do.
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Dragonite99 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:45 pm

I apologize for asking a stupid question, but...are there any Normal-type legendaries? I know for sure Poison doesn't have any. And about teh whole conversation about Normal-type: There are a good couple Normal-type Megas to choose from, and for lack of legends (if there are any at all), I find it easier for people to make good choices about their team. However- there are some Pokemon that are easy to expect on Normal monos, such as Blissey/Chansey, and Mega Kangaskan. Despite having only one weakness, and having immunity to Ghost-types, I think Normal-type teams are very flexible, as they can usually learn a good range of moves. But I believe it should remain at the tier it was originally: mid-high. A Fighting-type user can easily wreck this sort of Mono if they know what to expect. Heck, even their use of unaffected-by-poison-and-good-physical-attack-mon (such as Lucario or whatever) could take out their Chansey or Blissey quite quickly.

(Sorry if these sound like really weak arguments, i'm still improving on my debating skills)
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Lux Gracetail on Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:46 pm

Erm, I'd like to overhaul this thread for one which is more in the style of http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-viability-rankings.3517737/

All types can be Top. Not all Pokémon can be.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Galom on Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:04 pm

Lux Gracetail wrote:Erm, I'd like to overhaul this thread for one which is more in the style of http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-viability-rankings.3517737/

All types can be Top.  Not all Pokémon can be.
I would say go for it Lux, but there's really no point. I suppose you could list the "legendary/mega/uber" viability for each type, but DGA and I are already working on it. Making a raw viability thread would be pointless because Smogon will just have a better one for Monotype.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by XanthopoulusLurks on Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:15 am

Galom wrote:
Lux Gracetail wrote:Erm, I'd like to overhaul this thread for one which is more in the style of http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/monotype-viability-rankings.3517737/

All types can be Top.  Not all Pokémon can be.
I would say go for it Lux, but there's really no point. I suppose you could list the "legendary/mega/uber" viability for each type, but DGA and I are already working on it. Making a raw viability thread would be pointless because Smogon will just have a better one for Monotype.

With our 1 Legend or Mega rule, there might be some changes between CQ meta and the Monotype meta. As in some Legends can cover this Mega etc. etc., while we use something else in CQ.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Chleg on Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:14 pm

Nominating GHOST for HIGH TIER.

Now on paper, Ghost has a brilliant typing, only being weak to Ghost (Duh, yourself) and Dark, even though Dark is an extremely common and brilliant type, Ghost also has access to Aegislash, something banned to Steel. Ghost is one of the most defensive types in Conquest, if not, the best.

GIRATINA

MY GOD Giratina is a threat and must be used in Ghost in all cases. Giratina's wide movepool and with it's insane bulk of 150/120/120. Giratina can also carry Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind, making a Giratina a set-up bulky sweeper. Giratina is one of the few Pokemon that can reliably use Rest while taking minimal damage. Giratina can also be a bulky supporter, with Tailwind, Toxic or Will-O-Wisp and Magic Coat which can possibly bounce back Stealth Rock, something Ghost can't obtain without Golurk. Overall, Giratina is one Pokemon you really don't want to mess around with, even if you are THE Dark lord.

AEGISLASH

Aegislash, the what again? Anyway... Aegislash is the king of unpredictability starting from Movesets to EV's to Items. Aegislash also learns Sacred Sword, getting Aegislash to hit Dark types HARD. King's Shield, Aegislash's move which can cripple your opponent's attack if it makes contact. Aegislash also has priority, with Shadow Sneak which is vital for Ghost to sweep, since Ghost is known for defensiveness.

CHANDELURE

Chandelure is normally put a Choice Scarf on and sweep and yes, Chandelure can do that with it's awesome 145 SpAtk however, Chandelure can also be used as a Trick Room supporter, Will-O-Wisp, can use Clear Smog and Haze, can use Sub Calm Mind and many other sets. Chandelure can also learn Trick which is extremely nice since in truth, nobody expects Chandelure to use Trick due to.. well the lack of people using Trick.

Others..
Sableye
Golurk
Jellicent/Gourgeist-XL core
Gengar
Trevenant
Mismagius
Cofagirigus
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Galom on Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:45 am

Well, Ghost Knights have gotten a lot more powerful recently with the addition of Mega Sableye, and have always been kinda strong with the likes of Aegis and Gengar. As for Warlords, I'm neutral for now, but I'll come back on and either edit or post in a more extensive analysis for this nom later. Discuss this in the meantime.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:49 pm

Lol ghost being high
Well, Ghost is a great type in theory, but as for actually fighting.. Almost every team out there has Knock Off. And with the buff of Sableye-M, it might actually pose a threat to a lot of teams. I'm kinda neutral on this. I could say it actually should goto High, as Sableye-M kinda breaks Stall down. But due to how high Knock Off usage is in the game (Bisharp yeye), I'm just going to say no unless it gets another buff.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:32 pm

Uh.. Gonna do it. Bug for Top!

Bug is a monster of Conquest, a pick a lot of people goto, including me, just to see how much they can destroy with the hyper offensive nature of this mono. It is insanely hard to beat, and I found myself thinking about it every time I make a team, how am I going to counter this or that on Bug, especially if they go from one Sweep to the next, leaving my team fractured. Even if Bug can't play Balance or other styles of play well, I still believe they are a powerful type capable of being Top. Despite having a weakness to Stealth Rocks, I can see this type as Top due to its insane offensive potential. Bug is really good, capable of dominating some of its major weaknesses and having an amazing matchup against most monos.

For instance, all of Bug's megas are not even close to bad, they're all powerful pokemon that can function on a team pretty well. Scizor-M is a great pokemon, a bit outclassed by its non mega self, Pinsir-M can help level the playing field pretty hard, and Heracross-M can stall break like nothing else, as well as with a sticky web up and max speed, can be a competent sweeper. Beedrill-M can also be a decent U-turner, making the game even more dangerous as a team switches around from threat to major threat. Volcarona and Genesect can hit hard, one being a set up sweeper, the other being a powerful pokemon from the start with Boosted attacks coming off of Download.

With that mention of Sticky Webs, I'd like to mention another thing Bug has going for it.

Forrestress is a great pokemon on Bug, capable of setting and spinning away Rocks as well as adding other damage with spikes. Its ability of Sturdy, giving it isn't broken is amazing, as it can at least guarantee one layer of Stealth Rocks or Spikes, as well as being able to add momentum to a team with Volt Switch.


Now, this pokemon is seen a lot, and for good reason. It can kill maybe 1-2 pokemon on  a Flying Mono with its powerful STAB Thunders that rarely miss, but that is just a boon along with its great utility of Sticky Web. Sticky Web allows the rest of the team to not have to worry about most Scarves, which is a luxury on Hyper Offensive, and is great to help a sweeper pick a boosting nature for Attack over Speed.

Conclusion: Bug is simply put, an offensive powerhouse that is hard to shut down with your own offensive styles, hard to wall with Stall, and hard to play against in general. Despite its relatively few flaws that are overshadowed by its amazing potency, I think this type is worthy of standing among the rest as Top.

Now.. Hail our Haxlord: Beedrill!

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:53 pm

Now, sorry for posting twice, but I didn't want to lose too much, and I'd like to talk about another monster on Bug that I mentioned before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4vKaiZQwUI - Thinking of Volcarona every time I play this song.

Anyways, Volcarona is a monster. Hard to counter, decent typing, and can take on a lot of pokemon and set up on them. It has access to the amazing boosting move of Quiver Dance, grabbing onto a Stat Boost to SpAtk/SpDef/Speed, and doing it all in one turn. After 2, it becomes hard to counter or beat, and has some decent coverage moves. Its wide movepool consists of:
Quiver Dance(mentioned once lmao,reasons above), Fiery Dance(50% chance to boost Spatk, ain't bad.), Giga Drain(Nice recovery), Bug Buzz(Nice STAB), Hurricane(Odd coverage), Roost(Recovery move), and HP, usually Ground to hit Heatran.
Now, looking at this pokemon, and seeing its terrible weakness to Stealth Rock, how can this pokemon be rated S-Class in the Monotype Viability rankings for Bug..? Its called Support from Rapid Spinners such as Armaldo and Forrestress, helping to guarantee that rocks don't plague Bug. This pokemon is capable of defeating teams if its checks and counters are gone, and is extremely powerful.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

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