[Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Chleg on Mon May 25, 2015 4:34 pm

I don't think Fairy deserve High tier. My opinion and going to sleep k bai
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Nominating a bunch of types.

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:52 am

Nominating the following :

Ice : low-mid -> high mid.

Anyone that once played Ice with a good team can understand that nomination. Ok, the typing plain sucks. For real. If it wasn't for that amount of weaknesses, and the lack of any resist, I would have nominated Ice for High Tier.

Ice, even with that typing, got access to one of the best legends out there, being Kyurem-white. Scarfed, that thing can dispose of near anything. Actually, that type got a 'mon for every situation. Need a cleanup service? Kyu-w. Physical offensive? Weavile. Walls? Avalugg. (252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 248-294 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -> it can bulk near any physical attack. Including that. Heck, it can tank it with 252+ in SpD!)
Walrein makes a formidable fire check, and can also check numerous steel types, with super fang leaving those nice dents in opposition. Overall, Ice got the tools to threaten near any type, including ones supposedly strong against it.

Moving on with the 2nd nomination : Ghost : High-Mid -> High.

Does this even needs arguments? Aegislash and Giratina-O is still a formidable synergy, with access to really bulky AND offensive 'mons. Seriously.
I'll happily bring numbers if asked to.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Endurr on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:38 am

.


Last edited by Endurr on Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Lux Gracetail on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:32 pm

Endurr wrote:Hello, Endurr here.

I nominate: Ice from high mid, to high rank.

As to what Hydre said about playing Ice with a good team, I can second that. I admit, I lost my touch with Ice, but from my months of experience, I can full on tell you that Ice is capable of taking on the likes of Dark and Water.
Pretty much summing it up, if played right, Ice can take on the entire High rank roster.

Notable Mons.


Cloyster: Ah yes, this thing. Shell Smash with Focus Sash or White Herb, this thing is just terrifying. With White Herb, you maintain Cloysters absurd defense makes it tied for the Pokemon with the 6th highest defense, tied with Slowbro-Mega and base Aggron.  With Focus Sash, you can guarantee  a Shell Smash, but you can be easily picked off by any priority move. Skill Link Rock Blast and Icicle Spear ignores sashes, and Razor Shell is there for a Water STAB. Be careful, this thing can take you down anyday.

Kyurem-White: Once again, extreme killing service, how may I help you? Need speed? Scarf. Need extreme attacking power that you dont need anyways? Specs or Life orb. In fact, Kyurem-Whites  Specs Draco Meteor is actually one of the most powerful moves in the conquest metagame. 439 SpA further boosted by Specs is pretty darn powerful. Although the recommended is Scarf, Specs is always the powerhouse option if you want it.

Froslass: Froslass getting Spikes was something that really helped it in the metagame, as it can lay down hazards in which Stealth Rock might not deal too much damage to. Thunder Wave or Icy Wind is mandatory, and Destiny Bond to be that one guy.

Mamoswine: Holy hell, an Ice type got Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock can easily fit in on this. Thick Fat makes it receive less damage from a weakness of it, meanwhile STAB Earthquake, with a great attacking stat, takes down a lot of Steel Types. Stone Edge. Stone Edge. Stone Edge. The bane of Volcarona, Charizard-Mega-Y, and Talonflame right here, erryone.

Avalugg: Hazard Control, Bulk, Stall, Sweeping capabilities, right here. It can Rapid Spin, It can take a Close Combat from Heracross, It can sweep fairy with Curse Gyro Ball, it can heal. Need I say more?

Weavile Yay! Ice has an OU Mon! Here we have, Weaviles great speed stat, its great attacking stat, and its decent movepool. Low Kick can be used for any steel type, since most of them are quite heavy(Especially Aggron). Knock off is your trusty Dark STAB, Ice Punch is your Ice STAB, and you have Ice Shard or Fake out. Both of them great priority moves for picking off weakened foes.

Endurr here, and out.

Alright.  Reserved.  First impressions....  Eeeeer....  No, sorry.  But that's probably my bias showing through, as Steel Vs Ice is generally very stompy.  I'm just about to like, take a break, before I start properly revising, so forgive me for not going a proper analysis at this point.

Edit: A few things for writing stimulus for later:
Cookie-cutter mons: Avalugg is most often required for hazard removal.
Stealth Rock Weakness.
Weaknesses in General.

Edit: On a slight skim of your thing, I see only a few viable mons you are suggesting, making Ice very predictable. And you say that it faces up to the likes of Water and Dark? I find that statement very very very dubious. You are making the claim that it fights eye to eye with Water Spout ScarfOgre and Yveltal?

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Galom on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:26 am

Ice will not be moving up. It has absolutely no chance against Steel, Fire, and Water, and gets poor matchups against most types. While it has some good Pokemon, they do not pair well with each other and have poor offensive synergy. Additionally, it is forced to be hyper-offense 100% of the time since Ice is just so horrible defensively. It is weak to Stealth Rock and has next to no way to remove it (unless you want to use Avalugg or Articuno or something else horrible). If you're getting wins against any team you don't have a typing advantage against, your opponent is probably pretty bad.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Endurr on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:33 pm

Alright, understood.
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:39 am

Even if my blood boils at seeing avalugg and bad in the same sentence, specially for ice, alright.

Cloyster can also spin, btw.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Galom on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:51 am

Spin Cloyster is extremely bad. Shell Smash is the only way it should ever be used. The King's Rock set is also pretty bad.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Endurr on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:37 am

Spin cloyster is removing a good sweeper from Ice.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Nebulous on Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:29 am

I believe Flying should be moved up. Yes, it doesn't have landorus T and Thundurus, But you're disregarding one of the best pokemon on flying. Ho-Oh, With Ho-Oh and skarmory, you can ahve a physical wall and a special wall/tank, Also, Life orb Ho-Oh hits incredibly hard, and it can often even up the matchup against ice, because Sacred Fire is an absolutely amazing move, It can also have a decent matchup against Electric, because of Gliscor. Flying has so much variety, but nobody ever uses Ho-Oh, so that's why I see people disregard Ho-Oh whenever they make these tier lists.

Edit:
Also, I believe Electric should be moved up. Of course it doesn't have many usable pokemon, but Zekrom is absolutely amazing, especially if it has a choice band. Choice band Bolt Strike will absolutely maim anything that isn't outright resistent to it. Also, Volt Switch is a great move to keep up momentum. And if you can use Galvantula properly and make sure your opponent can't remove the Webs you set up, you'll often have a good chance at winning. Also, If Magnet Pull Magnezone is used correctly, it can even out the steel matchup, and even take down one of Electrics biggest threats: Choice Scarf Excadrill. If Excadrill gets locked into Rapid Spin while trying to spin your webs away, just switch in Magnezone and fire off a few hidden power fires, It can also be used to take down Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Empoleon. Electric is one of many types that aren't being used to their potential at all.
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Enchidio on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:02 pm

Okay, I'll obviously get denied. I'm not the best Monotype guy, but I can try.
I nominate moving Dragon to high.

An example of a sweeper is Reshiram. This is just my opinion, by the way.
Reshiram is basically sort of like the BL in OU and Uber. And there's a reason why it's there.
It can deal with ice easily. Little to no counters, access to Stone Edge to take down stubborn ice Pokemon such as Cloyster and Walrein, and Blue Flare to ruin ice. It can deal with fire with dealing with said Stone Edge on Ho-Oh (if Orbed), and the cool thing about Reshiram? Yes, it has higher special stats, but it can be used physically or specially. Should be mentioned. It has many counters, but it's a counter as well.

Next up is Dragonite. Yo, I can't forget about this cute, little psuedo-legendary. At first glance, it's your average cutie. But when looking closer, it's an amazing Pokemon. Access to one of the BEST moves you can think of (Extreme Speed), amazing movepool (Dragon Rush, Rock Slide) and an amazing attack stat of 134, it has few counters, examples are Weavile and other ice types, but it can run Weakness Policy, making it even more threatening. Best part of it is that it doesn't take up a Legendary spot.

Dialga is next. Access to rare moves like Aura Sphere to deal with ice types, resistance to its ice types, able to take down ground with Blizzard, and to make up for fighting weakness, a STAB move in Roar of Time that pretty much has one flaw, which is its retreat time. An amazing typing. It has counters such as faster fighting/ground types (Earthquake. EARTHQUAKE.), Dialga is one of the best Pokemon, and it's worth using your Legend spot for it.

Haxorus. This UU guy has many flaws, but in return, it has many pros.
Flaws: It's defense stat is average, and it's special defense stat is... no. Fairy and ice types ruin it, and while it has a good speed stat, it is outsped by many other Pokemon.
Okay, to the pros. It has an AMAZING attack stat of 147, along with either Swords Dance to get that stat into a whooping 294, or Dragon Dance to get it to around 210 and make it's speed to get around 150. I prefer Dragon Dance, but it's your choice. Then you can use the amazing Outrage for amazing damage, Poison Jab to deal with the ever threatening fairy types (except possibly Clefable, unless you set up enough), Rock Slide (I don't see this much, but it can deal with ice quite easily), and much more viable moves. It's annoying in game, and although there are much more Pokemon terrifying online, this guy remains to be an amazing Pokemon.

We have Dragalge as our next Pokemon. Kalos didn't just bring Mega Evolutions/Primal Reversions, new types, and new moves. It also brought new Pokemon, which many of them being quite usable. One example is Dragalge. An amazing special defense stat, many special moves (good for its stats), and access to the annoying Toxic Spikes, Dragalge is an end to stalls and while not the best at this job, a good wallbreaker.

Hydreigon is next. Although it has a horrible x4 fairy weakness (please don't hurt us Azumarill), and weaknesses to 3 other types (not counting dragon since unless you're getting couped, you're not gonna face another dragon lol), this Pokemon is terrifying. It can be ran specially (better), physically, or mixed. Outrage is to deal with Pokemon like Chansey/Blissey who are just too stubborn, and after that, you should have other moves like Flash Cannon, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Roost, etc. It has 4 moveslot syndrome, but it's still an amazing Pokemon.

Rayquaza is next. Rayquaza has lost a bit of potential since it can't use its Mega Evolution, but it's not (excuse my language) fucked. As a matter of fact, Rayquaza on its own is terrifying. It can withhold any item such as Life Orb, Weakness Policy (fite me ice types), and it has an amazing movepool with Dragon Ascent (Rayquaza would say "You may have banned my Mega Evolution, but you can't ban my move!"), V-Create, Victini's signature move that while decreasing stats can pay off heavily, Dragon Dance to boost it's already terrifying stats, Extreme Speed to obliterate Pokemon, Outrage, we all know why, and we can't miss out on the amazing Earthquake.

HONORABLE MENTIONS
Tyrantrum
Salamence
Salamence-Mega (Very useful)
Druddigon
Zekrom
Black Kyurem (Very useful)
White Kyurem (Very useful)
Goodra (Somewhat useful)
Noivern

This is just my opinion on why dragon can move to high, possibly top (if fairy didn't give a damn about the strong type). Give me the flaws for these guys, too.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Nebulous on Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:57 am

The Annoying Enchidio wrote:Okay, I'll obviously get denied. I'm not the best Monotype guy, but I can try.
I nominate moving Dragon to high.

An example of a sweeper is Reshiram. This is just my opinion, by the way.

But it can run Weakness Policy, making it even more threatening. Best part of it is that it doesn't take up a Legendary spot.



HONORABLE MENTIONS
Tyrantrum
Salamence
Salamence-Mega (Very useful)
Druddigon
Zekrom
Black Kyurem (Very useful)
White Kyurem (Very useful)
Goodra (Somewhat useful)
Noivern

This is just my opinion on why dragon can move to high, possibly top (if fairy didn't give a damn about the strong type). Give me the flaws for these guys, too.

Kyurem White outclasses Reshiram as a special nuke and a sweeper, due to it's high special attack stat.

Mega Salamence just isn't good in Conquest as it is in Ubers. It requires a lot of support to function at it's best.

Using Kyurem B isn't a good idea because it's physical movepool is complete and utter garbage.

Weakness policy Dragonite just isn't a good set, it's too situational.

Dragon just isn't such a great type in Conquest, sure, it's great in Monotype, because you can abuse all of its legends at once, AKA Kyurem B, Latios, Latias, and a few others. But in conquest, ir's a really restricted type because of the one mega/legend rule.
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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Enchidio on Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:19 pm

Ah, I see. White Kyurem is a better alternative, with much better stats, but Reshiram still has the moves to deal with ice, Mega Mawile, and other stuff. And I've never seen White Kyurem OHKO Ho-Oh, but I've seen Reshiram OHKO Ho-Oh with Orbed Stone Edge.
imo Dragon is heavily restricted, but it's still remains to be an amazing type.
psuedos, need i say more

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Hydre(Hydreigon) on Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:55 pm

The Annoying Enchidio wrote:Ah, I see. White Kyurem is a better alternative, with much better stats, but Reshiram still has the moves to deal with ice, Mega Mawile, and other stuff. And I've never seen White Kyurem OHKO Ho-Oh, but I've seen Reshiram OHKO Ho-Oh with Orbed Stone Edge.
imo Dragon is heavily restricted, but it's still remains to be an amazing type.
psuedos, need i say more

Kyu-w got fusion flare. It can kinda handle ice types ^~^


252+ SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Fusion Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 306-362 (100.9 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 542-638 (178.8 - 210.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yes, reshi will do more damage, but overkill either way. Kyu-w can OHKO-2HKO any ice type with fusion flare, bar walrein/lapras (and even then, draco meteor will do a HUGE amount of damage). The biggest difference between the 2 is the typing and the usual moveset, the former at the advantage to reshiram, the latter to kyu-w. Both are solid options.

Dragon deserves its current tier, and not more.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

Post by Enchidio on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:20 pm

Alright, I do not understand.

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Re: [Official] Conquest Type Viability Thread (Updated 12/7/14)

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